Home Forums Tips & Techniques any luck with motu track 16 & pacarana in ethernet mode?

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  • #2424
    thomastinkhauser
    Participant

    hi there,

    so I am trying to upgrade from my 2012 cheesgrater to a m1 system, and currently the only way I get the motu track 16 to play nice with the pacarana so far is to connect it via a bilingual cable to the fw 800 port of my mac pro, then return the favor with the port next to it (also fw800) to connect to the pacarana via a normal fw800 cable (beta?) – so, I managed to update recently and connected to pacarana via ethernet, no problems, except the pacarana does not play nice (will not connect) with the motu track 16, I tried all the tricks, used the right cables (bilingual 9pin to 9pin and a fw400 to fr800 cable, with an adapter at one end so they are both 9pin. no avail. I tried resetting the t16 to factory defaults, tried booting it in fw mode man times, made sure I start the pacarana first, then the t16, no avail. I am out of ideas. the reason I tried all this, is that when I upgrade, I want to circumvent having to buy 2x TB3/4 to TB2 adapters, and two tb2 to firewire adapters just to get the track 16 playing nice with my pacarana. any further ideas to try? I am still on mojave on newest kyma7+ – should I try the same (ethernet connected pacarana) with a newer m1 mac? I already got one here, could kyma 7++ make a difference?

    anyways, thanks for considerations,
    lee

    #2425
    SSC
    Keymaster

    Hi Lee,

    Just to confirm, do you have the Track16 connected to the FireWire port on the back of the Pacarana? And not to your Mac? If you have the Pacarana connected to the Mac via Ethernet, then you can connect the MOTU directly to the back of the Pacarana.

    Also, please try the procedure outlined here:

    When using the MOTU Track16 with a Paca(rana) connected to the computer by Ethernet (rather than by FireWire), use the following procedure for powering up the Track16: hold down the Mic1 button while pressing and releasing the Power button. Continue to hold the Mic1 button until the outward expanding vertical columns of indicator lights pause (roughly 5 seconds), then release the Mic1 button.

    #2426
    thomastinkhauser
    Participant

    hi there,

    thanks for the quick reply, – yes, I have the motu connected directly via firewire (trying different cables) to the pacarana, it will not detect it, or use it, I only get “silent device”. I followed the procedures outlined in this link to a T, not sure what I am missing or try next.

    one line in this link reads “If the MOTU Interface is still not showing up in the Audio Input or Audio Output lists in the DSP Status window, it may be that the computer has taken control of the MOTU and will not let the Paca(rana) use it.”

    I wonder how can the computer take control over something it is not even connected to? can drivers on the mac affect the motu interface which is connected via firewire to to a pacarana which is itself is connected via ethernet to the mac?

    #2427
    SSC
    Keymaster

    You’re right, if there is no FireWire connection to the Mac, then the computer cannot see the MOTU.

    Are you putting the MOTU into FireWire mode each time it starts up (unfortunately, it is necessary to change it to FW mode each and every time it starts).

    Can you verify that the Track16 is powered by its external power adapter (not bus power)?

    Have you tested the Track16 connected directly to the Mac to confirm that the MOTU is working correctly?

     

    #2433
    thomastinkhauser
    Participant
    • yes I put it in firewire mode each time, but I only get the “F” on the display when I am changing from usb mode, not when it is already in FW mode. does this change anything? does the F on the display have to appear?
    • yes the track 16 gets power when no fw is connected to it
    • when connected to the mac the motu shows up as track 16, its settings can be changed, but I have not tried to run audio through it, I assume it works as well, should I try this? does it make a difference?

    I might have done a firmware update on the t16 in the past, does this matter in this regard, or the exact procedure? also, I press mic1 each before starting up, and let go of it when the outer meters show up for a couple seconds, it this the right way to do it?

    #2437
    SSC
    Keymaster

    I might have done a firmware update on the t16 in the past, does this matter in this regard, or the exact procedure? also, I press mic1 each before starting up, and let go of it when the outer meters show up for a couple seconds, it this the right way to do it?

    I would try doing a factory reset on the Track16:

    Hold down the MAIN and LINE OUT buttons for 2 seconds. The LED lights will display the letter “D”. Once this letter disappears, your unit is reset.

    #2438
    SSC
    Keymaster

    I press mic1 each before starting up, and let go of it when the outer meters show up for a couple seconds, it this the right way to do it?

    When you turn on the Pacarana, please wait until the front panel says “Searching for audio interfaces”.

    Then turn on the Track16 (using the same procedure you’ve been using).

    Then start Kyma.

    You should see the Track16 in the DSP status window and be able to select it as the audio input. In DSP Status, you can use Configure>Route Outputs to confirm the mapping of Kyma outputs to Track16 physical outputs.

    #2439
    thomastinkhauser
    Participant

    I did this prior, too, I tried it again just now, no luck yet. it will not show up, it only works if both the paca and the track16 are connected to the mac via two separate firewire ports, separately. but then I am not connected via ethernet I guess.

    #2443
    SSC
    Keymaster

    Have you tried connecting the Track16 to each FireWire port of the Pacarana? (without connecting FireWire to the Mac)? To check whether one of the FireWire ports may be broken/
    Thanks!

    #2444
    thomastinkhauser
    Participant

    “Continue to hold the Mic1 button until the outward expanding vertical columns of indicator lights pause (roughly 5 seconds), then release the Mic1 button.”

     

    does this actually mean what it says or what it implies? it says I should release the mic1 button within this 5 second window, it implies I should release it afterwards.

     

    Have you tried connecting the Track16 to each FireWire port of the Pacarana? (without connecting FireWire to the Mac)? To check whether one of the FireWire ports may be broken/
    Thanks!

     

    will try this next, just wondering if it makes any difference that the pacarana is connected to the mac via a ethernet hub, or not. I could try to connect it directly to one of its eth-ports. it should not make a difference, right?

    also, if the next tests fail, which exact type of cables do you recommend me using, and which type of pci-e firewire card (ordered sonnet echo express external chassis for new mac) do you recommend for the pacarana?

    just to be sure, what exact set of procedures do I need to do to get the pacarana to work with the track16 while being connected to a mac via ethernet?

    • is it kyma7 software first, then pacarana boot, then track16 boot?
    • is it pacarana first, then kyma, then track 16?
    • is it something else?

    a few more technical questions:

    • does the track16 support both fw400 and 800 protocols? is the connector suited for both?
    • does the pacarana support both protocols? or is it fw800 only?
    • does my mac pro by any chance translate the two protocols on the fly, and this is why it works with two separate cables and ports, but not daisy chanined?
    • does the pacarana provide bus-power? should I try the following scenarios with bus powers and see for changes?

    I now tried a couple situations with no ethernet connected, purely firewire modes:

    • does pacarana connect to mac via firewire on port1? yes
    • does pacarana connect to mac via firewire on port2? yes
    • does pacarana (connected to mac via its fw-port1) detect track16 connected via fw-port2 with bilingual cable? no, actually it makes kyma lose connection with the pacarana after track16 has booted up.
    • does pacarana (connected to mac via its fw-port1) detect track16 connected via fw-port2 with regular beta cable? no, actually it makes kyma lose connection with the pacarana after track16 has booted up.

    so what is happening here, it sure looks like the track16 and the pacarana are not compatible on a protocol level, or the pacarana does no protocol translation like the mac pro apparently does, is this the case? is this also why I had set-up the kyma system with two separate firewire cables, one being beta (mac<->pacarana), the other being bilingual (mac<->track16) initially anyways?

    can I get in touch with you via phone to sort this out and discuss upgrade options to newer hardware?

    cheers,
    lee

    #2449
    SSC
    Keymaster

    does this actually mean what it says or what it implies? it says I should release the mic1 button within this 5 second window, it implies I should release it afterwards.

    You should wait until the outward movement of the columns of indicator lights pause before releasing the Mic1 button.

    will try this next, just wondering if it makes any difference that the pacarana is connected to the mac via a ethernet hub, or not. I could try to connect it directly to one of its eth-ports. it should not make a difference, right?

    You are correct, the Ethernet connection will not make a difference to this problem.

    • is it kyma7 software first, then pacarana boot, then track16 boot?

    Turn on Pacarana; wait until you see “Searching for Audio Interfaces” displayed on the front panel; hold Mic1 button down and momentarily press Power on the Track16; wait until columns of lights pause, then release Mic1 button; wait for Track16 to complete its start up; finally, start Kyma.

    • does the track16 support both fw400 and 800 protocols? is the connector suited for both?

    Track16 has a FireWire 800 connector but only support FireWire 400 speeds.

    • does the pacarana support both protocols? or is it fw800 only?

    The Paca(rana) supports both FireWire 400 and FireWire 800 speeds.

    • does my mac pro by any chance translate the two protocols on the fly, and this is why it works with two separate cables and ports, but not daisy chanined?

    The FireWire specification requires that when two devices communicate with one another, they use the lowest speed of: the sender, the receiver, and any intermediate nodes between the sender and the receiver. The Mac does not do any automatic translation, but the Paca(rana) knows it should use FireWire 400 speed when it sends audio data to the Track16 since it is capable of FireWire 400 only (and it knows to use FireWire 800 speed when it sends data to the Mac itself).

    • does the pacarana provide bus-power? should I try the following scenarios with bus powers and see for changes?

    The Paca(rana) does not provide bus power, so be sure to always use the MOTU power adapter for reliable operation.

    • does pacarana (connected to mac via its fw-port1) detect track16 connected via fw-port2 with bilingual cable? no, actually it makes kyma lose connection with the pacarana after track16 has booted up.

    • does pacarana (connected to mac via its fw-port1) detect track16 connected via fw-port2 with regular beta cable? no, actually it makes kyma lose connection with the pacarana after track16 has booted up.

    This behavior could be the result of the Mac using the Track16 as its audio interface (which prevents the Paca(rana) from using it). Please check Audio MIDI Setup to make sure that some device (other than the Track16) is selected as the Mac’s audio input, output, and system alert device.

    It might be simplest to stick with the following:

    • Mac Ethernet to Pacarana Expansion Port B
    • MOTU power supply connected to Track16 power input
    • Track16 FireWire to Pacarana using a bilingual cable
    • No FireWire connection between Mac and Pacarana

    First try using the left FireWire port on the back of the Pacarana; if that does not work, please try using the right FireWire port.

    so what is happening here, it sure looks like the track16 and the pacarana are not compatible on a protocol level, or the pacarana does no protocol translation like the mac pro apparently does, is this the case? is this also why I had set-up the kyma system with two separate firewire cables, one being beta (mac<->pacarana), the other being bilingual (mac<->track16) initially anyways?

    The Track16 and the Paca(rana) are compatible (we confirmed this here in our office a couple of days ago when you first asked this question).

    While both bilingual and beta cables will work, we highly recommend using bilingual cables as they are much more mechanically stable (less prone to disconnect due to cable movement).

    Please feel free to contact us by email (or by phone if it is really urgent).

    #2450
    thomastinkhauser
    Participant

    ok I tried it all so far, maybe for some weird reason the “fans stalled” situation in my case is preventing me from connecting the t16 to the paca(rana) in ethernet mode, not that it would matter in fw-mode, background: I modded the case to have silent fans, disconnecting the regular fans and using the usb power for the large silent fan array I DIY-ed. (otherwise the box is unbearably loud, in the same room)

    I will try more once I get the new hardware, in the meantime, can you recommend a firewire pci-e card for use in a sonnet box? also, are latencies better with the new ristretto, does it have fans and is there a crossgrade program?

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