How to link marker loop rate to !KeyVelocity?

Question

Hello there,

I'm trying to achieve a sound with a 'spring' to it, using a tau file morph. I have set loop points within the editor and I'd like the rate of the loop points to be controlled by !KeyVelocity, so that if I hold down the trigger, the loop plays just once but a sustain is created by the loop (the loop should release slightly over time but increase in amplitude with more pressure ((!KeyVelocity.))

So, the loop should speed up with increased pressure and slow down with decreased pressure. Hopefully, this should happen continuously.

Also, it would be good if the start time of the initial loop would be determined by velocity as well, so that a shorter press results in a quicker playback time.

I am using a continuous surface to trigger the sound, if that helps.

Any ideas?

Edit: Hello, ssc, I have done my best to upload an example, I am new here so I'm not sure how it works or whether you expected multiple files or not. All I have really done is created a new tau file from the menu, loaded two .psi files (with loop markers set) and loaded the '!KeyTimbre controls morph of "x" and "y" sound from the gallery, then changed a few commands, using the instructions you gave me and also adding a MIDI out prototype for polyphony. If you could modify this to incorporate the marker loop rate feature, that would be magnificent.

http://kyma.symbolicsound.com/qa/?qa=blob&qa_blobid=16503702391801790030

Edit 2:

Please see the following video, from around :0:31 onwards, sorry I didn't know how to embed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbJwyTkCJk0

Edit 3:

Attached, is the original sound I was using. Two .psi files, in a spectral morph. Sorry for the delay in my response, hope you can still help me here.

http://kyma.symbolicsound.com/qa/?qa=blob&qa_blobid=6314824104922220186

Comments

What continuous surface are you using?  Can it send Key events?  or Pen down events?

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I'm using a ROLI Seaboard RISE, so it sends Key events.

Answer 1

If you use the Morph2dKeymappedPsi, to move through the looping portion faster with increasing pressure on the key, you could try setting the ScaleSusDur to 1 - !KeyVelocity.

Similarly, to get a faster attack for faster key presses, you could set ScaleAtkDur to 1 - !KeyVelocity.

Comments

When I load my .psi files into this sound, I'm told the base pitch of the samples is the same, when they sound radically different to me. Is there any way to bypass this so I can try what you've said?

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It sounds like the base pitch may not be set in your psi files?  If you open the .psi file in Kyma, the base pitch and range should be displayed at the top.  If you click on where it says Pch: Rang: Thrsh: you can reanalyze it and set the base pitch.

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Under the Tools menu, there's a tool called Batch Harmonic Analysis. You might find this useful in the future when you have sets of samples that you'd like to prepare for playback using the Morph2dKeymappedPsi (or the equivalent for Spectra and GA).

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Hello again. I think I did hear the looping work as you said it would. the only problem is, I'd like to have the morph work with !KeyTimbre and I want to morph between two samples , which should be stretched along the keyboard, rather than having certain samples on certain keys. is there any way of using this loop speed function within a regular keyboard-controlled sound? Thank you.

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Morph2dKeymappedPsi (and the similarly named Morph2dKeymappedGA, Spectrum, and SampleCloud) do a three-way morph: MorphX, MorphY, and morph according to keyboard pitch.  For example, by using !KeyTimbre in the MorphX parameter field, you could control one morph.  If you put !KeyVelocity in MorphY,  you could simultaneously control another morph dimension with continuous pressure on the key.  And the last dimension is smoothly morphed over the keyboard range (it is not one file per key number, but a smooth morph from one to the next).

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Thank you, but I would like to use only one morph for the moment and I don't want to morph using the keyboard pitch, I would like to play the samples like a normal keyboard instrument, so one sound is at the top of the !KeyTimbre morph and another is at the bottom. Do you know if this is possible?

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If you create one .psi file whose base pitch is the top of your keyboard, and another .psi file whose base pitch corresponds to the bottom of your keyboard; put them into a folder, then the Morph2dKeymappedPsi will map those two Psi files onto the full range of your keyboard.  Is that what you want to do?

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I'd like to have the two sounds mapped to the full range of my keyboard but they should be in a morph, so that one plays at the bottom of !KeyTimbre, another plays at the top of !KeyTimbre and they both play together in the middle. So, the entire keyboard should play a combination of the two sounds, rather than having a keyboard split.

Answer 2

If you'd like to use samples on the keyboard, you could take a look at the Prototype called Morph2dKeymappedSampleCloud KBD.  Try playing it from your keyboard first.  Then try substituting your own samples for the example files provided in the Prototype.

If you don't want any morphing across the keyboard, try the Prototype KeyMappedMultiSample Cello w/ Velocity. Test it out first and, if this is what you want, you can substitute your own samples.

You can also try out the prototypes: Morph2dKeymappedGA KBD, Morph2dKeymappedSpectrum Key morph only OscillatorBank Stereo, and other Prototypes in the category Morphing. If you like these Sounds,  here's a video tutorial showing how to prepare your own samples for the Morph2dKeymappedPsi and others: https://vimeopro.com/symbolicsound/kyma-x-tutorials/video/152615472

For general examples of keyboard-controlled Sounds, go to the Kyma Sound Library, search by Sound control, and select keyboard as your source of control.

Here is an example of shortening the loop time by putting a fader into the ScaleSusDur field. If your .psi files have non zero length between LoopStart and LoopEnd markers, it will shorten the duration of the sustained loop.

Here's an example using your two psi files.  !KeyTimbre is in the ScaleFormant field, and 1 - !KeyVelocity is in the ScaleSusDur field.

Comments

Hello again. I have been trying a few examples, but none of them seem to incorporate the maker loop rate feature which I desire. Is there any way to steal that feature and use it within one of the gallery morph examples? Thank you so much.

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Could you please upload the example you are using now?  Maybe we can modify that one?

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I have uploaded my file. Thank you for your help! Please let me know if you can modify it for me. Also, is there any way to make the maximum (and minimum) loop speed almost granular? That would be amazing.

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I edited the second answer to include an example with some .psi files from the library.  It depends a lot on where you have placed the start loop and end loop markers in your .psi files.

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Ah, I see. So, being that this is still the Morph2dkeymappedPsi sound, is there any way to use the loop function within the sound I sent to you? With this sound, I have to use four samples and perform two morphs. I would like the markers to make more of a natural looping sound, if possible, so I will keep experimenting with them. Is there any way to randomise the loop cycle a bit? Also, I got closest to the sound I want when setting ScaleFormat to 1 - !KeyVelocity, are there any other commands I could use here so that the Scale Format changes but I don't lose the initial velocity of my sound? I have added a youtube link to my question, displaying the sound I was trying to emulate all along. If you can identify any giveaway factors as to what is going on with this sound, it would be greatly appreciated.

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Hi Nuobu, The reason I couldn't use your example as a starting point is because you did not include the .psi or .tau files with it.  To archive your Sound with all the necessary files, please go to the Tools menu and select File Archivist.  This will guide you through the steps of how to Archive a Sound File which you could then upload or email to support AT symbolicsound DOT com.  Thanks!

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Hello again, I have finally included my own example (Please see sub-section, 'Edit 3,' in the original question.) As a reminder, I'm looking for a way to have Marker loop rate incorporated into this sound, as well as a ScaleFormat feature. Please let me know if you can still help me out. Thank you!

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Please see the new example, added to the answer above.  !KeyTimbre is in the ScaleFormant field, and 1 - !KeyVelocity is in the ScaleSusDur field.

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Is this a Morph1dPsi module, rather than a regular gallery KBD Ctrl of Morph sound and if so, is the Morph1dPsi the only module which will allow the maker looping? Also, the watery effect given by adding 1 - !KeyVelocity to ScaleFormant seems to be lost on this sound, because it doesn't appear to have a formant morph going on. I couldn't hear what !KeyTimbre was doing to it.

Is there any way this can be done within the gallery example?

If not, is there any way to make this sound more musical and more like the Amon Tobin sound? Should I try to set a longer release time, to get more of a 'keyboard sound?'

Also, are there any prototypes such as pitch shift, resynthesis or something granular which could make various types of sampled audio play as if they were from a synthesiser?

That seems to be what Amon Tobin was going for and I just can't work out how he did it. :(

Thanks for all the help so far

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>> Is this a Morph1dPsi module, rather than a regular gallery KBD Ctrl of Morph sound and if so, is the Morph1dPsi the only module which will allow the maker looping?

The example is a Morph1dPsi; the Tau players are implemented using Psi files and so is the Morph1dPsi, so they are very similar to each other.

>> Also, are there any prototypes such as pitch shift, resynthesis or something granular which could make various types of sampled audio play as if they were from a synthesiser?

Yes! You could explore the possibilities by going back to your original samples, opening the Wave Editor, and experimenting with the different galleries that can be created in the Wave Editor. You can get an introduction to the Wave Editor gallery in this video: https://vimeopro.com/symbolicsound/kyma-7-tutorials/video/116291353.

To have the Wave Editor gallery produce keyboard-controlled examples, choose keyboard as the control source. To start off, try checking the Pitch box, unchecking the Rate and Modulate parameter values boxes and then click the Gallery button.

In the resulting gallery, check out the SampleCloud examples in the Polyphonic: Sources category. Also explore the other categories; they contain lots of different sample playback and processing techniques.

One way to quickly explore these examples is by clicking the Dice button at the top of the gallery browser: this will select a Sound at random and play it.

Be sure to try adjusting the controls in the VCS; those controls (in addition to playing different pitches on the keyboard) will have a big effect on the sound you hear.

If you would like to get even more examples, try checking both Rate and Pitch and the Players, Synthesis and Modifiers check boxes.